>> Let’s face it: by the time I manually ship version 1.0 of a product, the AI-assisted version could have been deployed 10x faster. By then, enough real-world feedback would have surfaced to identify the major issues, and tools like Claude Code would make it possible to fix and ship version 2.0 at an incredible pace.
Really depends on what you are shipping, what your users expect and what your personal preference is. I do not want to go 10x on products that need high performance / high reliability, is deployed at large scale where its not easy to undo. But for other stuff, sure why not. The problem is everyone just puts everything in same basket. Either way, AI is useful but not to the same extent people claim it to be.
Well said. In creative spaces they talk about “Dirty” vs “Clean”. Dirty they say lets you move fast. Clean is slow.
Happen to be a startup that isn’t mission critical to someone’s health and well being? Great, now you can use AI and be as dirty as you would like.
Are you working with dangerous chemicals that are ingested by others, or systems that control hunks of metal flying through the sky with hundreds on board? Maybe we should stay clean in those environments until we make AI itself clean.
dot-com bubble? It's less about black or white, and more about how much of it. Nothing weird to me about caring given how it all also impacts peoples lives and much wilder all these numbers are becoming.
Difference is that Amazon, Microsoft, Google or Oracle are not going out of business if it all collapses. Neither chip or hardware manufacturers will be harmed.
I'm in no way expert on corporate finance, but Oracle has always been known to be sleaziest of sleazy companies. And Larry Ellison is still 6th richest person in the world and is not known to throw money on crazy moonshots like Mark Zuckerberg.
Oracle likely structured everything the way that its gonna be everyone else problem before they go down. No?
This is just not dot com bubble. Its not like someone built x20 datacenter capacity than humanity needs or x10 chip manufacturing capacity or x5 power grid output.
So far capacity barely grown because its super slow to build, but prices skyrocketed x5 to x100.
If its blownup everyone will just return to selling hardware or capacity at 20% margin instead of 2000%.
Only major labs will collapse because they have nothing but models and losses. People working for them still gonna find a job just with $10,000 bunus instead of $1,000,000.
>> same people that made bun have made this decision
Are they the same people though? Their interests, goals, environment, incentives, boss etc etc all changed after they got acquired by Anthropic. Its not uncommon for a big company to acquire a smaller one and completely destroy that product to serve the parent company's goal.
You can go read all the details on Jarred's X account - including the progress, how it was thought out, strategy, that they're aware that it looks like zig still, etc etc etc.
Speaking of environment though, everyone neglects to mention that the Bun core team now has access to Claude Mythos. You think they haven't already run Mythos against this? So they have private access to the best cybersecurity scanner known to man.
Suffice to say, I'm yet to see anything that really worries me in any major way with this.
I've read the details, strategy, extensive test suite etc. I'm sorry, I don't think "they have access to Claude Mythos" is the rationale to it unless you truly believe the marketing 100%.
I think we'll just see how it all turns out. Maybe check back in a year or two on hwo it all goes. Anyone who says they "know" or are "very sure" this is the right path or wrong path is plain stupid IMO. Having seen how things work in big companies with high market visibility, I believe there is non-trivial chance this driven mostly as marketting stunt (particularly in current climate) and decision isn't purely based on best interest of Bun's future and longevity.
> You can go read all the details on Jarred's X account - including the progress, how it was thought out, strategy, that they're aware that it looks like zig still, etc etc etc.
> This whole thread is an overreaction. 302 comments about code that does not work. We haven’t committed to rewriting. There’s a very high chance all this code gets thrown out completely.
I ain’t reading a single thing from the guy after this one.
> Saying "because they vibe coded we are dropping support for Bun" sounds political.
I disagree that this is a political stance. People based on their experiences have formed opinions on whether they trust that model of development or not. Bun having taking extreme measure of going 100% in within a week is itself extreme positioning from their side which will likely result in extreme reactions because depending on who you are and your experience you'd bet on the fact that it may or may not work out.
Its a polarizing world with AI. There are fanboys drinking the kool-aid blindly listening to whatever Sammy/Dario/... say as gospel, and on other side there are haters who again blindly reject the fact that these AI tools can be actually be useful. I think that's what the politics is.
I’m tracking the polarity of the whole movement, I didn’t understand how politics was attached. I desperately don’t want the whole thing to become a left vs right disaster. We have enough of those.
You might not like it but you actually live in a world with other people and building technology often affects their lives and they have opinions on it. For AI a lot of that impact has been negative.
I don't have the emotional energy to care, actually.
This is actually fascinating. How does my opinion matter? Should I join all the socials (this is my only form of social media) and stand on my soapbox and shout into the void? Do I need to express I care so others know I care and have picked a side and have opionions on evrything?
I do not care. My opinion does not matter. I can scream into all the voids. I can virtue signal until the heat death of the universe/until I die, it matters not. I don't have the desire to spend the limited emotional bandwidth on giving a flaming fuck about the world around me. I'm not that arrogant or self-centered to think anyone else cares.
> I do not care. My opinion does not matter. I can scream into all the voids. I can virtue signal until the heat death of the universe/until I die, it matters not. I don't have the desire to spend the limited emotional bandwidth on giving a flaming fuck about the world around me. I'm not that arrogant or self-centered to think anyone else cares.
“Learned helplessness” himself graced us with his presence.
What's your basis for assuming LLM is capable of doing this?
I honestly don't know personally either way. Based on my limited understanding of how LLMs work, I don't see them be making the next great song or next great book and based on that reasoning I'm betting that it probably wont be able to do whatever next "Descartes, Newton, Leibnitz, Gauss, Euler, Ramanujan, Galois" are going to do.
Of course AI as a wider field comes up with something more powerful than LLM that would be different.
Meanwhile, songs are hitting number one on some charts on Spotify that people think are humans and are actually AI. And Spotify has to start labelling them as such. One AI "band" had an entire album of hits.
Also - music is a subjective. Mathematics isn't.
And in this case, an LLM discovered a new way to reason about a conjecture. I don't know how much proof is needed - since that is literally proof that it can be done.
>> Meanwhile, songs are hitting number one on some charts on Spotify that people think are humans and are actually AI. And Spotify has to start labelling them as such. One AI "band" had an entire album of hits.
There is quite some questions around that. Music is subjective and obviously different people have different taste, but I wouldn't call any of them to be actual good music / real hits.
>> LLM discovered a new way to reason about a conjecture
I wasn't questioning LLMs ability to prove things. Parent threads were talking about building new kind of maths , or approaching it in a creative/artistic way. Thats' what I was referring to.
I can't speak for maths of hard science as I'm not trained in that, but the creativity aspect in code is definitely lacking when it comes to LLMs. May not matter down the line.
Or maybe you just aren't that good of an engineer (or whatever profession you are into) and find the easiest group to blame on your failures. I found that people who often are quick to judge and group of people in one bucket based on their color/ethnicity/gender/... are often not that bright people and like to focus on directing it on others. Somewhat like MAGA.
Wow this escalated quickly. What OP is saying is not anecdotal but true to every major US tech company. You can cope all you want, won't make a difference
I have seen teams that are 100% Indians with a manager actively pushing Indian resumes and friends/family on top. They don’t play nice and by the DEI rules like a lot of Americans do.
But I have also seen amazing Indian managers that don’t act like this.
It’s ok to acknowledge that culturally Indians will favor themselves heavily. As bad as some of you want to make it sound like racism to close that conversation at all cost.
I'm sure you do. But your real life experience is not everyone else's real life experience, so there's no really need to make blanket statements about people.
Oh wow, you went from one place to some totally different place at the drop of a hat. Where did me "coming" to Western Europe come into the discussion about racial stereotyping about Indians? I'm not in Western Europe, and I don't plan to live there, not sure how you got that impression.
I think there's no reasoning with someone who only wants to deal in absolutes. Have a good day.
There is some bias in some teams, but it's not universal, and such a bias for one's ethnicity really exists in teams of all ethnicities. You just see it more because there are plenty of xxxx in IT.
When tech companies lay off large amounts of workers like this, they often immediately replace them with H1Bs. These layoffs are almost always cost-cutting measures, not caused by lack of work - the work is still there and still has to be done, they just don't want to pay expensive white people to do it.
Thank link does not provide any evidence that no h1bs were laid off.
How many non-h1bs did they hire in that fiscal year? How many h1bs did they lay off?
> It makes no sense to lay off H1Bs only to immediately re-hire them afterwards.
"It doesn't make sense to lay off programmers only to immediately rehire them afterwards", yet that has been happening for the past 4 years in every company.
It does if you stop seeing them as labels like 'H1Bs' or 'Programmers' and start seeing them as human beings with particular skills and strengths and weaknesses or members of particular teams (who get grown or cut at the very high-level whims of directors or VPs, without any regard for who is on them.)
Laying someone, or a team off happens for any one of a million reasons, most of which have fuck all to do with their immigration status.
You're mixing a combination of prejudice with a poor understanding of how businesses actually operate. When some corporate shithead chooses which team to cut in half, they aren't looking at the immigration status ratio in them. And for these mass layoffs, the team's direct and next level managers have next to zero say in them.
I'm sure they don't look directly at immigration status when deciding who to lay off, but they do look at their expected pay and benefits, which just so happen to be strongly correlated with immigration status more often than not.
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