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> It's time to break up Google.

Just like Apple, Facebook and Amazon?



Apple aren't a monopoly, they aren't a problem in the way Facebook and Google are.


Google has a natural monopoly. I am a big supporter of penalties for monopoly abuse but not all monopolies are bad. They do all need thorough oversight and regulation. But having a monopoly is not strictly bad. The illegal actions done to maintain them are strictly bad. They should be allowed to come and go as the markets demand.


A "natural monopoly" is something like the water or sewage or electricity provider where is isn't sensible to physically run more than one set of pipes into everyone's house. That dynamic doesn't apply at all to search engines.


Monopolies that are allowed to exist (e.g. last mile telecom, utilities) are usually very tightly regulated. Probably to the extent that Google would prefer to be broken up instead.


I'm not sure you could break Google up in a meaningful way without destroying it. Considering the majority of their revenue is search how could you divide up search?


Not destroying it would not actually be the goal. Breaking it up could mean, for instance, splitting one search engine into two.


> Apple aren't a monopoly

I'm not sure that's the case; Apple isn't as dominant in share of any intuitively-described market as, say, Google and search ads, but a more relevant test for monopoly is pricing power, and I wouldn't be surprised if they in fact have that for some of their products/services.


Which? What product do they not have an abundance of competition in? I mean they have the minority market share in every category.


Pricing power isn't defined by descriptive categories, it is defined by behavior (whether they can increase prices without sales moving to competitors.)

It's a test that exists because there are an infinite number of ways to construct named categories of products, which can create any appearance you want, but none of them tell you if things in that category are genuinely competing with each other.


The person I was responding to wasn't talking about pricing power, they were talking about monopolies. Apple isn't anywhere near a monopoly in any commodity or service. In fact, they compete with the near monopolies of Microsoft and Google.

Also, being a monopoly isn't in and of itself illegal, it's abusing your monopoly position to harm competition. You have to be a monopoly first.


Pricing power is a test for whether a monopoly exists; it tests for actual practical competition rather than the presence of other participants in a decriptive category which may not actually compete in practice.


It may be a test but having pricing power doesn't mean they're a monopoly. They have pricing power because they deliver more consumer surplus in their products than what they capture. Even in the case of the iPhone business having rising ASPs most of that has come from segmentation of the customer base into higher end models rather than simple price increases.

You don't need to have a monopoly to have pricing power, your product just needs to be differentiated enough.


More to the point, using the category "iOS app distribution" pretty clearly leads to the conclusion that Apple has pricing power there.


Apple doesn't set prices for the apps they distribute except for their own apps. The developers do.


That's not the price of distribution. The price of distribution is Apple's cut.


Can developers sell you iphone software without Apple in the middle?


Not easily, but they certainly can sell Android software.


You don’t get to redefine monopoly to fit your argument.


huh? Facebook and Google are monopolies?


They aren't, but they are definitely dragging adoption of progressive web apps behind.


You don’t seem to understand what a monopoly is. Tell me a single category in which apple is a monopoly. High profit margin != monopoly.


One thing regulators could do is force Apple to support the installation of other operating systems on their hardware and allow OS X to be installed on other systems that are reasonably similar to their hardware (i.e. "hackintosh"). Perhaps even demand that Apple support ways to develop iOS that aren't tied to their platform.


How exactly would this benefit consumers? Arguably it would suck — either it’s not well tested or they spend so much time and money testing they don’t ship as much anymore.

Btw, you can already put Windows on their hardware, or Linux for that matter.


Why should regulators do that though? Are consumers lacking viable alternatives to any Apple product?


Apple has < 15% marketshare in EU, so that's low priority for now.

Facebook? Yes.

Amazon? Even more yes.


That is a really naive view of market share. The market for phones is tiered, and Apple dominates the tiers it wants: The profitable ones. It doesn't take 51% market saturation to have monopoly control.


Anybody who wants to get out of Apple's system can easily pick up a different high-end phone[0], with different tradeoffs, with few repercussions beyond how their Apple Watch (if they have one) works and the color of their messages when texting iPhone users.

That's not monopoly power.

[0] as a consumer I care about the phone's features, not its profit margin for the manufacturer. There's still a healthy ecosystem of non-Apple companies making phones.


Please explain how Apple has monopoly control over high end phones.


Apple has 100% market share for Apple users .


By this logic, we should break up BlackBerry.


It was more of a if you own an iPhone you are required to get all your apps through Apple and are charged accordingly so, reducing competition and ultimately being fleeced with pricing.


Yes, and that's an issue, but it's basically irrelevant compared to Google, with over 2 billion users.


Abuse is abuse.


Yes, but it isn't monopolistic abuse. You can always go to another phone and another ecosystem and probably get the very same apps.


Abuse of dominant position requires dominant position.


When you are forced to use their eco-system it makes them the dominant position by default.


But no one is forced to use their eco-system. You can buy an Android and use their ecosystem. You can buy a Blackberry or Microsoft phone (I think) and use theirs.


First things first


So maybe don't buy an iPhone? There are tons of alternatives, and Apple doesn't hold a majority of the market share in any country.


Or maybe instead, we should open up the app market, so as to reduce the monopoly power over that market.


Apple and Amazon actually sell you a product, they are not in the business of selling yourself to others.


Why would that mean they are less deserving of regulation? Microsoft sold products during their regulatory troubles, so did the Rockefeller empire.


You see the warning all over the place:

"If you aren't paying for the product, you are the product" doesn't mean that if you are paying for the product, you're not the product.

This is the first time I've seen someone completely ignore, and even directly contradict, that incredibly common warning.



Google sells a product, just not to you; they sell to advertisers.


Amazon both sells you products, and turns you into a product.


In a few more years. Go after the biggest fish first.

Don't forget salesforce, microsoft and oracle.




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