Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I highly recommend the documentary Filmworker to anyone interested in Stanley Kubrick's character.

It's about Leon Vitali, the actor who played Lord Bullingdon (the neurotic brother of Lady Lyndon) in Barry Lyndon. After filming Barry Lyndon, he quit acting and became Kubricks personal assistant / factotum for over 20 years. Although some would say he was Kubrick's personal slave. It is utterly shocking to see how badly Kubrick treated him at times. Vitali did the work of 4-5 assistants, completely neglected his family, destroyed his health, spend the best years of his life re-cutting scenes until 5 in the morning while listening to Kubrick's violent tantrums, and ended his successful acting career for him. But apparently he was paid so little by Kubrick that he ran into financial trouble after the director's death. Yet for some mysterious reason, he remained completely loyal to his master until his own death in 2022.



Leons daughter Vera talked a bit about her father, his relationship to Kubrick, art and family in “Sommar i P1”, a Swedish national radio show where people in “public interest” talk about whatever for an hour or so. It’s pretty interesting and provide some insights, but unfortunately it’s only in Swedish

https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1319508#


can someone post some cliffnotes please?


There are many people who believe that something outside themselves is more important than their own personal happiness or even basic sustenance/stability. Whether that’s something to be admired, damned, or merely observed — it would seem Vitali made choices for reasons worth it to him, personally.


Lots of people make bad choices for themselves and others due to psychological control, manipulation, and/or abuse, such as people who willingly join cults.

I’m not saying that is what happened to Vitali, but I think it’s the open question being alluded to.

It is important to be aware and concerned about cultures or industries that foster cult like personality leaders.


Exactly right. But people today are extremely resistant to this fact.

It's very clear that many, many people would give up nearly anything -- including years of their lives -- to work with someone as talented as Kubrick. Is that crazy? I wouldn't do it, but others would.


This is not the issue. The issue is that some people (like, probably Kubrick) will abuse this.

There is nothing wrong in loyalty. What is wrong is unilateral loyalty.


I hope this doesn’t come off as snide, but is there a positive trait that abusive people won’t abuse for their own benefit?

In my view, if there is one I’ve yet to encounter it.

Which would suggest it’s largely the responsibility of each individual to decide what is important to themselves, and how much of themselves they’re prepared to sacrifice in pursuit of said thing.

For some, perhaps works of art that hold meaning for millions of people over many, many years would qualify. For others, it’s a highly paid dev job. I suspect the difference between the two (and all others) “exists” more in the eye of the beholder than folks on any side of the equation would care to accept.

You see it as unilateral loyalty. Perhaps he saw it as something different, or at least lived his life with both eyes open to his own experience. The only thing we can both say for sure is that we will never know for certain.


He had a family. While clearly he thought it was worth it personally, he wasn't making choices just for himself.


That is true. This is the belief on which this entire, perpetual, scam of "die working for this startup for peanuts" for the great purpose of "changing the world" has been running. Every time a founder finds such sheep, mostly fresh ones but some old ones too once in a while.

Sadly all that almost looks like "grateful to be abused".


> Lord Bullingdon (the neurotic brother of Lady Lyndon)

It's her son from the first marriage.


You are right of course!


Sounds like a two person cult.


Sounds like an Apple employee to Steve Jobs.


Also very enjoyable, Emilio D'Alessandro’s book Stanley Kubrick and Me


Go and photograph commercial street - right away! After completing the task, he found it was just for Kubrick to show off to his colleague


You can see his name in a newspaper article in Eyes Wide Shut at 2:21:03 (timing from Apple "TV" app version)


He also played the red cloak.


[flagged]


Maybe he was happy doing it but it doesn't mean that he was treated well. That era of director dictators caused a lot of suffering.


[flagged]


"doesn’t make him bad"

Doesn't it though?


What a weird comparison.


Did Jesus himself do that directly?

I mean directors like Kubrick, Hitchcock and John Landis that acted like dictators. See twilight zone accident.


[flagged]


So you believe that what OP wrote is normal boss behaviour? I wouldn't want to work for you.


I don't think there's a lot of people that wanted to work for Kubrick. But I also have an easy time accepting that there are many people out there that will make great sacrifices for something that they love and believe in.

MMA fighters, for example, put themselves at tremendous risk because they're chasing their own personal ideas of "greatness." And there are many examples of "struggling artists" throughout history that gave up on relationships and money because they were chasing something that they believed in.

I'm not defending Kubrick's managerial style, and I don't know anything about the individual that they are talking about and what drove him. I just don't have any difficulty imagining that this person believed in something very personal that he was chasing. Something that the rest of us can't relate to but that meant a great deal to him. We don't have to imagine that Kubrick had him brainwashed or "enslaved" to accept that he could have made a personal choice that the rest of us are incapable of understanding, in pursuit of a value that he held above all others, because it was a deeply personal choice.


>MMA fighters, for example, put themselves at tremendous risk because they're chasing their own personal ideas of "greatness." And there are many examples of "struggling artists" throughout history that gave up on relationships and money because they were chasing something that they believed in.

MMA fighters generally chase their own glory, to get their own hand raised in the ring. Not become a personal servant to another person's ego.


Agreed but you're missing the point, which is that the individual might have so believed in Kubrik's art that he wanted to make personal sacrifices in pursuit of that. For all we know (and others undoubtedly know more about the story than I do), this man might have actually been in love Kubrik and wanted nothing more than to be close to what he perceived as "greatness."

I'm not even saying whether I think it's morally right or wrong. Only that it's not hard to imagine the scenario.


You're missing the point, abuse is bad even if the abused accepts it for whatever reason. You can achieve great things without abusing people, it's not a requirement.

Your MMA example is also missing the imbalanced power dynamic that you usually have in an abusive relationship.


The MMA market is a near monopoly. Ask the employees of the WWE (née WWF) whether that constitutes an abusive relationship.


Normal bosses don’t get Kubrick like results.


Weinstein also got a lot of good movies made, probably more than Kubrick. Sexual abuse and rape is fine and forgiven I guess.


That's impressive. The ratio of offensiveness to word count is off the charts. Hats off, I guess.


Kubrick’s results were all over the map. He made maybe three great films:

Dr. Strangelove

Full Metal Jacket

A Clockwork Orange

A bunch of not bad films:

2001

Lolita

Barry Lyndon

The Shining

Spartacus

One real turd of a film:

Eyes Wide Shut

And a bunch of forgettable filler:

All the other films he made.

Compare this to the Anti-Kubrick, Clint Eastwood, who made:

Unforgiven

Mystic River

Million Dollar Baby

Letters From Iwo Jima

Gran Torino

And a bunch of okay films:

Pretty much everything else

And it’s pretty obvious that you don’t need to be an abusive taskmaster like Kubrick to make great art.


2001 was "not bad"????


Jumping into this with a "spicy" personal opinion.

How I would rate 2001 depends entirely on my criteria.

For cinematography and vfx I would give it an 11 out of 10. Ground breaking.

For story and entertainment, I'd give it a -1. It is an anti-film in that sense. The most mind-numbingly boring and drawn out piece of "film" that I have ever had the displeasure of trying to sit through.

And I say that as a self-professed film nerd. I admire Kubrick a lot. But I can't stand 2001, at least when I judge it by the same criteria that I judge other films.

Film is visual story telling. Emphasis on "story."

Putting aside Dave & Hal (which make their appearance so late into the "film" that I've already been asleep for 3 hours - yes I'm exaggerating), when you take away identifiable protaganoists and antagonists, with backstories, goals, motivations and obstacles what you are left with is more of an exhibition.

2001 was more of a 1960s speculative endeavour into humanity's future at the dawn of the space age than it was a story told through imagery. It lacked plot, character development, relatibility and it's pacing was so slow and drawn out that it's hard to maintain your attention throughout.

When you judge it for what it was, there is a lot of greatness there. Many of its visual effects were truly groundbreaking and influenced filmmaking for decades to come.

But when you compare it to films that you actually want to re-watch for entertainment value ... I would put it in the "awful" category. But that's just my personal opinion.


> It lacked plot, character development, relatibility

Kubrick definitely did not play by those rules.


2001 is art but its also like watching paint dry.


2001 Lolita Barry Lyndon The Shining Spartacus

these "mid" films would be among the top 10 ever easily

but according to him "tough" guy Eastwood can surpass it


sorry but Eastwood is not in the same league as Kubrick, by a long mile.

just ask reddit and reverse the results to know who is better


Note to self: In future it's definitely best to respond to all bait with "just ask reddit".


How is this any different than say working at Tesla today?


Shades of that Twitter executive who shared a picture of herself in a sleeping bag at the office, presumably doing "hardcore engineering". She later got fired regardless.


Anecdotally, some managers like to show how they're present physically yet they don't actually contribute anything.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: